Fat and Feminism… (or shut the fuck up bitch a man is speaking)

Published August 15, 2009 by Fat Heffalump

If you have seen the comments on my post “Still a Long Way To Go” you will see I have been plagued a bit by a troll over the past couple of days. Not your standard troll who likes to antagonise just for the fun of it, but a poor, hard done by man called William who really believes that he’s got the God given right, just because he’s a man, to fill up someone else’s blog with his “You women have got to stop whinging, we men have got it so hard too.” attitudes.

Unfortunately he doesn’t respond to either open debate or ignoring/deleting him, and has started emailing me as well. Because what he wants is not for his voice to be heard (which he could quite easily do by blogging in his own space and move on from mine, which he is so determined to prove is WRONG and MISINFORMATION), but he wants for me to just SHUT UP and say “Oh yes William, you wise man, you are so right, men are so hard done by.”
Well that ain’t gonna happen folks.
You see, this is one of the problems with fat acceptance. Not only are we fighting for acceptance as fat PEOPLE in this world, but there are also a very noisy population of men out there who just want women to shut the fuck up and stop talking, which makes it a feminist issue too. Stop complaining, stop having a voice, stop standing up for what they believe in, stop speaking for other women who don’t have the confidence to do so, stop arguing… just shut the fuck up already bitch, you are so WRONG!
The saddest thing is that douchebags like this drown out the very valid points that other more respectful men are trying to make, as you will see by the other man who comments on that blog – who is a respectful gentleman and not swallowed up by the “Oh my God a woman is speaking and she doesn’t agree with me, that’ can’t happen!” attitude.
Yes, I said douchebag. A douchebag is a man that has offensive attitudes towards women.
Because what men like William want is for women to be invisible, especially fat women, because then he doesn’t have that pedestal of “Well I’m a man AND I’m fat!” over them.
I don’t want to get involved in the politics of fat acceptance. But so long as there are men out there who honestly believe that women don’t have the right or reason to point out that there is a vast double standard when it comes to the attitudes in society towards women and their physical appearance and men and their physical appearance, I will have to. Especially as I am a woman who has some confidence and the ability to string a few sentences together.
So long as there are men out there who demand that women stop complaining about this double standard and expecting us to just shut up and go away, I feel obligated to speak up about it. I will continue to do so until those men get it that there IS a double standard, and that while there are issues that fat men face in society today, that those issues are vastly amplified for women, who have their value read in their appearance more than their brains, or heart, or humour.
Until then, I will exercise my power on my blog to delete, block and report the douchebags to my heart’s content.

24 comments on “Fat and Feminism… (or shut the fuck up bitch a man is speaking)

  • There's a style of rhetorical argument that I call the 'Uppity Negro' – it's when someone complains that, while your argument may be fair and even justified, you shouldn't put it in such an aggressive or annoying way. It's only ever used by people who feel themselves to be in a position of authority against people lower down in the social hierarchy.

    Accusing someone of whining or complaining loudly doesn't address the complaint. It just tries to shame the complainer into shutting up. And usually, if someone is complaining loudly it's because they were being ignored in the first place.

    Don't ever accept the 'Uppity Negro' put-down. It demeans us all. A person's opinions should be discussed based upon the validity of the arguments contained with it, not how politely or rudely they were offered.

  • Chris, I think you'd better find another term for that type of put-down – that one is highly offensive.

    Racism (even unintentional) is not welcome on this blog.

  • Hi

    I think that the fact that you said that you will delete or block any comment on this Blog that you do not agree with makes this Blog meaningless anyway.

    I am not a whinning troll, just a Fat Man with more experience at being a Fat Man than you will ever have.

    William

  • William, no blog owner is entitled to give you a point of view if they don't want to. Their blog, their rules. Now quit your whining.

  • Hi Sarah

    Censorship of non-offensive material from one of members of a group being discussed makes this Blog invalid.

    I am sorry but the life experiences of Fat Men are not as vastly different than from Fat Women or as black & White as portrayed on this Blog. That is all I have said and if that makes me a troll then I am not the one with the problem.

    William

  • And William… We're fat women who have more expeirience being fat women than you will ever have. See? We're speaking about our problems.

    I know that fat men don't get treated the same as thin men. But look here… Women don't get treated the same as men. And fat women don't get treated the same as thin women. Therefore, not only are we discriminated against for being women, we're discriminated against for being fat too.

    And, I think fat men are certainly treated better than fat women. Think about it: Men are "supposed" to be, according to society, strong, big warriors… Women are "supposed" to be, according to society, dainty, sweetlings in need of protection. A fat man can still represent that image sometimes even better than a thin man can. But the thinner the woman, the better she represents the image society expects her to represent. Fat women are the furthest from that.

    No doubt that being fat (no matter your sex) means you will be treated differently and that's not right. When it comes to Fat Acceptance, I find that most bloggers are female. If you want more representation for fat men, then represent them! I'm sure many people will support you! Just don't try to drag down the fight of females.

    Big Smiles!
    -Lexie

  • Censorship. Lolol. William, come back when you know how to speak English. Sleepydumpling isn't an agent of the US government; she can't exercise censorship over anything.

    What she can tell you to do is shut the fuck up, which you really should, because you sound like an idiot. You can say "invalid" as many times as you like, it doesn't make it true — and we're just going to laugh at your stupidity and keep doing what we're doing.

    Doesn't that just make you angry? Doesn't that just make you want to keep hanging around a bog where people are openly making fun of you in posts and comments, and where you'll never convince a single one of us to listen to anythign you say? It clearly does, which is the funniest thing of all.

    Keep fighting there, William. It's in no way pathetic. *laughs behind her hand*

  • I think William has just proven my argument. More "Wa wa wa, shut up women, you shouldn't ever speak." Is it any wonder he's having a miserable time of life?

    Thank you to all of those who responded, I appreciate you taking the time. Mwah! Now I'm off to read your blogs too.

  • William — Dude. If this blog is invalid, go read another, valid one. Turns out there are lots of blogs on the web. Or, you know, write your own. Knock yourself out.

  • But Potterchik, the women WON'T ADMIT THEY'RE WRONG. Can't you see how that opresses William? It HURTS him. WHAT IF HE LEAVES, AND WE JUST KEEP SPEAKING? That's the sort of thing that could keep a misogynist awake at night.

  • I think it's unfair to characterise William as a troll. He will correct me if I'm wrong, but he is/was a moderator on Fat!So?

    It is a fact that he knows more about being a fat man than a fat woman would.

    I think the problem with him and some other fat men is that they share a tendency with a lot of men who speak about men's rights. They seem to locate the cause of their problem with women, rather than the masculine myths they have bought into.

    You say you want support William, well let me try my best.

    For you and a lot of men, regardless of weight, you have to learn to analyse how the ideals that you hold in your head of what a man must be, is responsible for crushing you.

    I'm not trying to say feminism hasn't got faults, it has a number, but forcing men into a state of almost of psychic paralysis, (or in some cases, suicide) through lack of self-esteem, because they don't fit the male ideals put forth by patriarchal society, isn't one of them.

    To help you understand what I'm getting at, take a look at this [http://kateharding.net/2009/07/28/beauty/] and I quote;

    A lot of things have changed in the last three years, but the most important change here is how I view other women’s beauty. It’s not that I used to be jealous of beautiful women, though of course I envied them some — it’s that I often felt diminished by them, as though they were so pretty just to spite me, to remind me my place in the order of things.

    What is forgotten is how much a feminist sensibility forces you to look inside yourself and be responsible for what you think, it used to be called consciousness raising.

    I think sometimes that some men think feminism is all about women complaining about men, it isn't.

  • I'm sorry but being a moderator somewhere doesn't preclude someone from being a pain in the arse. I know a LOT of moderators that do anything but.

    What it boils down to is that despite my asking William politely SEVERAL times to read my disclaimer and move along if he didn't like my blog, he insists on hanging around here and demanding that I retract my statements, that I am wrong, that I am censoring him.

    Nobody is forcing him or anyone else to read this blog, but as astoreen has raised, he clearly has a problem with anyone (sorry, WOMEN) calling him out on his misogynistic attitudes.

  • I'm sorry but being a moderator somewhere doesn't preclude someone from being a pain in the arse.

    My first line was;

    I think it's unfair to characterise William as a troll .

    I think I was fair to both parties, if you read what I said, maybe this makes it seem like I was not emphatic enough in agreeing with you.

    I understand that, but I thought I had something worth saying that would address both parties and move the discussion on to a more useful exchange is all.

  • Hi

    This my last post here.

    I never said that you had to retract anything. I would hope that you would realize that you do not have some omnipresent view into the lives of Fat Men and do not know what Fat Men feel and what they experience.

    I read your disclaimer and it said this Blog was about delivering messages that would uplift Fat People of both Genders. I know this is your Blog, but what is it worth if there is not a exchange of ideas and there is no two way communication?

    I do not think that I have behaved badly, I have only questioned your statements about Fat Men.

    William (for anyone interested I do have my own blog, but she has deleted the links that I left)

  • William, you are not entitled to an opinion on this blog. You do not run or own this blog. You can run your own blog and have your own opinions. You do not have the right to dominate the blog of another to get a point of view across.

  • Thank you Sarah, you've hit the nail on the head.

    From this point on I shall be deleting ANYTHING that William posts on this blog. Because I know despite his "this is my last post here", he will be back.

    He's a PITA and totally doesn't get that this is MY space and I will not be intimidated by his bullying. He thinks I am wrong, and he will not accept that he cannot change my feelings or shut me up in my own blog, will not just leave and therefore is a TROLL.

    Wriggles – there is no "both parties" in this situation. My blog, my space, anyone who don't like it needs to just MOVE ALONG.

    If I had been on a communal site, there might have been a "both parties". It's time this man got the message that as much as he wants to insult me or put words into my mouth, he has absolutely no entitlement in this space at all. It's particularly ironic in that I've never even been NEAR his blog or bothered him in his space. If I were anywhere near his blog he would have the same rights I have here.

    He commented here on my blog, he then emailed me privately with more attempts to shut me up. It ain't gonna happen.

  • Wriggles – there is no "both parties" in this situation. My blog, my space, anyone who don't like it needs to just MOVE ALONG.

    I was gonna say, like. There is no "more useful exchange", there is William shutting up because he's been told to and what he thinks doesn't matter in this space.

    Which apparently is happening now. Good on you, sleepydumpling. Fuck that noise.

  • Heh, a classic example of WATM.

    Sleepydumpling, thankyou, we need more people like you who refuse to be silenced.

    I will never understand why people continue to read and whine about blogs they don't like. This isn't Clockwork Orange, no-one is holding your eyeballs open and forcing you to look. Seriously – if you don't like it, don't read it.

  • Thank you both – it's most appreciated!

    randomquorum I'd not heard of WATM – it totally makes sense, thanks.

  • I’ll keep it simple.

    Everyone should be questioned, regardless of their beliefs, whether right or wrong.

    If you can’t handle that,
    then don’t share your views for people to read.

    You are not a God,
    this is only a blog.

    • If this is only a blog Nate/Marcus, then why are you bothering to respond to a post that is over a year old?

      You’re a perfect illustration of what I referred to, over a year ago, in this post. You disagree – fair enough – but you just cannot let it go without having your say, without trying to make me feel minimised or belittled, in the hope that I might just shut up. And to try to raise yourself above me and women like me.

      Every sentence you’ve left is either suggesting that I’m stupid (I’ll keep it simple), that I am unable to handle criticism or challenge (if you can’t handle that), that I should shut up (don’t share your views for people to read) or to minimise me (this is only a blog). Yet your very actions defy your suggestion that I, my opinions and my blog are not worthy of your time and energy. When someone truly feels something is unworthy, they walk away, they don’t take the time to come up with a comment that is carefully designed to suggest disinterest.

      It really burns your bread that I’ve criticised a man (again, over a year ago!) and I’m not backing down from it.

      You are right. I am not a God. I am a Goddess, and you will never forget that.

  • We are all female/male entitled to voice our opinion.
    Why would I want you to shut up?
    Criticism is healthy.

    And although you may want me to be a woman hating mysogynistic little man, I’m not that guy.

    Nor am I Marcus,
    My name really is Nate,
    I’ve nothing to hide.

    My point was never that I want you or all women in the world to shut up.
    I just think that when you have an opinion, people have the right to question it.
    I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with that,
    so long as they’re polite and respectful.
    As I think I have been.

    • Voice your opinion/question others yes, which, if you actually read my post properly, is what I actually say. But to belittle or dismiss, no, you do not have that right.

      You commented (your first ever comment on this blog) in a manner that leaves little doubt that you wanted to minimise what I have to say. Your very tone, your choice of words and your patronising reminder that “this is only a blog” make that loud and clear.

      Had you instead said “I disagree because….” you most likely would have had a different response from me. But your superior tone and patronising attitude has just illustrated my point in the original post entirely.

      I don’t want you to be anything. I actually have no opinion of you at all – just that your behaviour is inappropriate. If you think that your attitude is “polite and respectful”, you have no concept of what polite and respectful actually is.

      And the Nate/Marcus came from the fact that your email address doesn’t match your name – a common troll practice – just making sure I responded to the correct name.

      I will not be entering into any further debate with you, because you have not approached me in MY space in any manner that deserves further attention. If you wish to talk about uppity women, please do so on your own blog, not mine.

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